what does it take....

[on tilt]

what does it take to consider yourself a successful cash game player?

what do you think is a good average hourly rate to consider yourself a successful cashgame player? limit, pot limit, no limit?

just for the sake of standardization, what do you think you should be making at these stakes?

1/2 NL

1/2 PL

5/10 limit

discuss

[thejim]

At each of these games, you should make somewhere between 15-25 dollars/hour over the very long term if you're a "good" player.

JAG - IMHO

[on tilt]

anyone else?




i just wanted to get post # 11111 under talking poker

[thejim]

btw, for the purposes of answering your question, I assumed we were talking about playing live.

[on tilt]

yes....i track all of my live play...tournies and cash.

i don't track online play at all. i just play online to get my fix between live games

[Zero]

yes....i track all of my live play...tournies and cash.

i don't track online play at all

I would send an email to Tom Schieder and ask him. I know you read pokerati so you know quite a bit about him, and they are usually pretty good about answering email. Tom likes to help people for the most part as well.

[thejim]

yes....i track all of my live play...tournies and cash.

i don't track online play at all

I would send an email to Tom Schieder and ask him. I know you read pokerati so you know quite a bit about him, and they are usually pretty good about answering email. Tom likes to help people for the most part as well.

Let us know what he says.

[TommyTwoToes]

just invite him to respond here ... i would also like to hear the viewpoint of a known success.

also if he thinks that as the limits increase if the number of Big Bets earned goes down on avg or if it should stay at the same pace as the low.

I know what the books say... but hey sometimes books and reality are two different things...

[MushMouthMike]

ONE

MILLION

DOLLARS

[thejim]

also if he thinks that as the limits increase if the number of Big Bets earned goes down on avg or if it should stay at the same pace as the low.

I don't understand. You're saying if you win 2 big bets an hour at 5/10, you should be able to win 2 big bets an hour at 30/60?

[TommyTwoToes]

also if he thinks that as the limits increase if the number of Big Bets earned goes down on avg or if it should stay at the same pace as the low.

I don't understand. You're saying if you win 2 big bets an hour at 5/10, you should be able to win 2 big bets an hour at 30/60?

that is what people say... i am saying that i don't necessarily think its true...

the other thought is that you shouldnt be playing the bigger game jsut cause your bankroll is capable... you should be playing it cause you can beat the game.

[on tilt]

also if he thinks that as the limits increase if the number of Big Bets earned goes down on avg or if it should stay at the same pace as the low.

I don't understand. You're saying if you win 2 big bets an hour at 5/10, you should be able to win 2 big bets an hour at 30/60?

although i don't have a lot of experience with this, i would think that it's should be true. i would think as the stakes go up, you wouldn't have as many people in the hand (or hanging around as long) that shouldn't be.

but then again... i average about 2 BB/hr at the 4/8 game. i made better than 10 BB/hr at my last 10/20 session...granted, this is no indicative of long term results.

[thejim]

Over a sufficient sample size, your win as a big bet/hour ratio should go down as the limits go up.

[on tilt]

Over a sufficient sample size, your win as a big bet/hour ratio should go down as the limits go up.

again...i would agree

[on tilt]

yes....i track all of my live play...tournies and cash.

i don't track online play at all

I would send an email to Tom Schieder and ask him. I know you read pokerati so you know quite a bit about him, and they are usually pretty good about answering email. Tom likes to help people for the most part as well.

i sent an email to tom. you can see it all here.

http://pokerati.com/2007/12/21/how-not- ... poker-pro/

[Neko's Ohana]

yes....i track all of my live play...tournies and cash.

i don't track online play at all

I would send an email to Tom Schieder and ask him. I know you read pokerati so you know quite a bit about him, and they are usually pretty good about answering email. Tom likes to help people for the most part as well.

i sent an email to tom. you can see it all here.

http://pokerati.com/2007/12/21/how-not- ... poker-pro/

Can you copy and paste it? I can't see it here from work and would like to see his response to you.

[on tilt]

December 21, 2007
How to Not Be a Poker Pro
read more: bankroll management

On Tilt sent me an email inquiring about what it really took to play poker for a living. I was happy to answer, it being the holidays and all. And because Dan is withholding my Christmas bonus on the grounds that I don’t post enough, I thought I’d share our conversation with the educated readers of Pokerati who probably have given some thought to the same question:

From: Tom Schneider
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 7:03 PM
To: ‘on tilt’
Subject: RE: it’s your favorite nuisance…

Hey OT,

You are in a similar position that I was many years ago. Good results, but no place to play, and playing too small to make a real living. In order to think that you could make a living playing poker, I think you need to test yourself at limits that would allow you to live the same or better than what you’re used to. In other words, if you make $50,000 per year, that’s about $25 per hour. You are going to need to play at least 10-20 limit or, I would say 5-10 NL. I think many people make the mistaken assumption that winning at 1-2 translates into winning at 5-10 and higher etc. I even find myself sometimes taking 1 month of good results and interpolating 12 good months and wow, I’m rich. I believe that you need to keep detailed records until you have the equivalent of at least 6 months of full time work, i.e. 1,000 hours at the table.

I hope this helps


—–Original Message—–
From: [on tilt]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 4:24 PM
To: tom schneider
Subject: it’s your favorite nuisance…

On Tilt…remember me.

I hate to bother you. I really do. But you are the closest thing to an authority with a proven track record that I can ask.

So basically, I’ve already convinced myself that I could play cards for a living. But i have two things holding me back.

1. Bankroll. poker is essentially a part time job for me, and I partly live off of the money I make playing….so the bankroll is not growing. and between current job and family, I don’t get out to play cards enough to get ahead.

2. There aren’t any games big enough around here that make consistantly that would support doing it for a living. oh yeah, I limit almost exclusively when playing cash games at casino’s or local rooms.

well i think most of that was irrelevant. i made a post on a local forum, and someone suggested that i email you and ask your opinion…so here I am.

i’ll include a link to the post. i don’t expect you to post there, but if you have time to take a look, i would love to hear your thoughts.

oh yeah, just a little warning. the core group that post there have all become pretty good friends. don’t be alarmed by any derogatory banter or hazing you might encounter there.

here’s the link.

http://www.westonpoker.com/forums/viewt ... 1425#81425

thank you for your time

on tilt


Posted by Tom Schneider in News & Speculation at 4:16 am

2 Responses to “How to Not Be a Poker Proâ€

[on tilt]

his reply was more in response to my email than the original post..but still interesting to hear his thought on the matter.

[Cajun]

What?? you didn't mention that you are the current McPoty Champion

[Neko's Ohana]

Good stuff. Although this did make me laugh a little:

oh yeah, just a little warning. the core group that post there have all become pretty good friends. don’t be alarmed by any derogatory banter or hazing you might encounter there.